From: Brian Holtz [brian@holtz.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:51 AM
To: Elizabeth Hubbell
Subject: RE: Query

> Thank you for making a start at assessing, point by point,
> my (provisional) presentation
> I sincerely hope to present a suitably thoughtful public 
> response on the alt.atheism.moderated forum to your 
> completed three-part analysis as soon as it's all in.

It's all there in that one posting.  Did you not see the
sections marked "Specific Ethical Breakthroughs" and
"Ecology"?

> my brother says "I believe that what we term 
> as "good" behavior or "bad" behavior is simply a 
> differentiation between that behavior which helps preserve the
> species and that behavior which does not.

1. Note that there is still no objective rational basis
for deciding that the species should be preserved.  The
basic problem is that nobody has ever demonstrated how
one could reason from "is" to "ought".

2. There are and have been many value systems in which
"good" and "bad" do not correlate with species survival,
but rather with survival of the self, tribe, or ecosystem.
However, it is true that most value systems (even
extropianism) essentially value survival or propogation 
of some cause associated with the self.  Nevertheless,
there are potential exceptions, such as hedonism and
nihilism/pessimism.

3. Always avoid the mistake of thinking that species try to
preserve themselves. Selection operates on genes and individuals,
not on species.

> "It is one of 
> the reasons why I have always believed that human beings 
> are fundamentally evil, or, more exactly, selfish."

It's a mistake to think that humans are fundamentally evil,
or that selfishness is itself more bad than good.  As I say
in my book:

Humans, like all known social organisms, are naturally cooperative.  Humans are not by nature necessarily evil, but their natural self-interest gives them a natural capacity for evil.  In their natural social environment of family and community, humans tend naturally to be more good than evil, and to cooperate for mutual benefit.